I just started working on this with Jaldi. She does an automatic down with the cue "Table". I tried Table-Sit, but she didn't get it. So last night I stood right next to the table and told her "Up" also using my hand signal for sit as she got on. That was much more successful. I will post the video this weekend.
I am wondering if I am going to confuse her for the down. Should I also practice Table in a separate session from Up to be sure she understands the difference? Or should I work on just Up for a while? Or nothing at all until we have a break from trials since we have an AKC trial coming up in only a week, then a USDAA trial 2 weeks later. We're going to have 3 downs to only 1 sit.
if your command 'Table' produces an automatic down, then when you want a sit you need a different command. I like 'Bench' because the ch... sound is more like a sit. I trained one of my wheatens a long time ago by preceeding the sit command with 'bench' all this away from the obstacle. when bench ment 'sit' which actually didn't take long, I paired bench with the obstacle starting right next to it with the dog getting lots of rewards for getting on the bench and sitting ...
Submitted by Olga Chaiko on Fri, 2007-11-09 17:14.
Teaching two automatic positions on the Table from the get go, or as an afterthought (re-training) is done the same way.
Though there is nothing wrong with the approach of teaching the dog a different cue for, say, Sit!.. by adding it to an existing cue.. and then adding the table to it.. I teach it the opposite way, ;-)..
First I let the dog know that the "game" is on the Table. Then I elicit a position I want to teach.. let's say, SIT.. That can be done differently for different dogs.. I am not very particular.. you can lure, you can just put them in a sit.. or you can wait all day for them to offer it, ;-).. CLICK the SIT... NO VERBAL CUE. Get the dog off the table.. play and treat.. Walk with the dog back towards the table.. indicate to the dog there is a chance to earn a reward.. once the dog engages the table, help with the sit.. or wait till the dog sits or the sun goes down - your choice, click and reward. NO VERBAL CUE. Repeat until the dog races to the table and sits..100% without fail. Then name the position. I call it Box!
Do the same thing with the down position. If you started with the sit, the dog will offer a sit and will be surprised that it doesn't pay, ;-(.. That's were the fun game of MORE THEN ONE THING TO DO WITH THE TABLE starts.. Ignore the sits and help the dog into a down.. repeat steps above until you get an automatic sit.. then name it. I call it Table! (very original, I know, ;-)..)
Now let's see if the dog can tell Box! from Table! Refer to video in Lesson 8.
P.S.: When re-training, please approach the task as a clean slate, like the dog has never been trained.
P.P.S.: Unfortunately, if you are trialing and training.. I can't help you, ;-(.. Training takes time. I don't like trialing if training is not ready yet. Maybe enter classes where the skill "under construction" is not required?
P.P.P.S.: The concept of "the same object can be engaged in different ways" is a mental skill I teach my dogs early on. For instance, I say Kennel! for the dog to get into his crate.. but if I say, Get up! - the dog will jump onto the crate (please don't do it with wire or mesh crates, silly, ;-).. If I say, Jump!, the dog will jump over the crate.. If I say, Out!, the dog with go around the crate.. etc..
The twin concept to that is "the same thing can be done in different ways".. which helps dogs with generalization.. Say, I ask the dog to Get in the Car!.. If I have both the sliding door, the back lift gate, and the drivers door open in my van, the dog will enter the car from the nearest opening.. If the dog doesn't see an opening, he will circle the car to find an open door.. Space actually will jump into the car through a window.. and Luz will go get the keys and open the damn thing if the car is locked.. OK! OK! that last bit about the Luz is a joke.. but I may teach him to do this.. now that I think about it.. LOL..
Submitted by addictedtolabs on Sun, 2007-11-11 10:33.
Thanks Olga. As usual, you read between the lines and addressed my reservations.
>P.P.S.: Unfortunately, if you are trialing and training.. I can't help you, ;-(.. Training takes time. I don't like trialing if training is not ready yet. Maybe enter classes where the skill "under construction" is not required? <
When #8 came out, I thought it was a great idea and toyed with the idea of retraining Bailey. I realized in the "heat of a run" it is not practical for ME to have diffrent cues for each dog. : (
At one point I used paired cues with Kody & Bailey..Table down,table sit. What I got was a down or a sit in front of the table. they were responding to the last thing they heard.
I am going to get out the clicker and work closer to the table until it is solid.
Re: Table question
check out lesson 8. the section where Olga worked Luz and Yankee on sit v down in her fornt yard!
elizabethÂ
Re: Table question
I was thinking there may be more to it if you are re-training.
Jean
Re: Table question
I just started working on this with Jaldi. She does an automatic down with the cue "Table". I tried Table-Sit, but she didn't get it. So last night I stood right next to the table and told her "Up" also using my hand signal for sit as she got on. That was much more successful. I will post the video this weekend.
I am wondering if I am going to confuse her for the down. Should I also practice Table in a separate session from Up to be sure she understands the difference? Or should I work on just Up for a while? Or nothing at all until we have a break from trials since we have an AKC trial coming up in only a week, then a USDAA trial 2 weeks later. We're going to have 3 downs to only 1 sit.
ValÂ
Re: Table question
if your command 'Table' produces an automatic down, then when you want a sit you need a different command. I like 'Bench' because the ch... sound is more like a sit. I trained one of my wheatens a long time ago by preceeding the sit command with 'bench' all this away from the obstacle. when bench ment 'sit' which actually didn't take long, I paired bench with the obstacle starting right next to it with the dog getting lots of rewards for getting on the bench and sitting ...
hope this helps!
elizabeth
Re: Table question :: Alternate Automatic Table Positions
Teaching two automatic positions on the Table from the get go, or as an afterthought (re-training) is done the same way.
Though there is nothing wrong with the approach of teaching the dog a different cue for, say, Sit!.. by adding it to an existing cue.. and then adding the table to it.. I teach it the opposite way, ;-)..
First I let the dog know that the "game" is on the Table. Then I elicit a position I want to teach.. let's say, SIT.. That can be done differently for different dogs.. I am not very particular.. you can lure, you can just put them in a sit.. or you can wait all day for them to offer it, ;-).. CLICK the SIT... NO VERBAL CUE. Get the dog off the table.. play and treat.. Walk with the dog back towards the table.. indicate to the dog there is a chance to earn a reward.. once the dog engages the table, help with the sit.. or wait till the dog sits or the sun goes down - your choice, click and reward. NO VERBAL CUE. Repeat until the dog races to the table and sits..100% without fail. Then name the position. I call it Box!
Do the same thing with the down position. If you started with the sit, the dog will offer a sit and will be surprised that it doesn't pay, ;-(.. That's were the fun game of MORE THEN ONE THING TO DO WITH THE TABLE starts.. Ignore the sits and help the dog into a down.. repeat steps above until you get an automatic sit.. then name it. I call it Table! (very original, I know, ;-)..)
Now let's see if the dog can tell Box! from Table! Refer to video in Lesson 8.
P.S.: When re-training, please approach the task as a clean slate, like the dog has never been trained.
P.P.S.: Unfortunately, if you are trialing and training.. I can't help you, ;-(.. Training takes time. I don't like trialing if training is not ready yet. Maybe enter classes where the skill "under construction" is not required?
P.P.P.S.: The concept of "the same object can be engaged in different ways" is a mental skill I teach my dogs early on. For instance, I say Kennel! for the dog to get into his crate.. but if I say, Get up! - the dog will jump onto the crate (please don't do it with wire or mesh crates, silly, ;-).. If I say, Jump!, the dog will jump over the crate.. If I say, Out!, the dog with go around the crate.. etc..
The twin concept to that is "the same thing can be done in different ways".. which helps dogs with generalization.. Say, I ask the dog to Get in the Car!.. If I have both the sliding door, the back lift gate, and the drivers door open in my van, the dog will enter the car from the nearest opening.. If the dog doesn't see an opening, he will circle the car to find an open door.. Space actually will jump into the car through a window.. and Luz will go get the keys and open the damn thing if the car is locked.. OK! OK! that last bit about the Luz is a joke.. but I may teach him to do this.. now that I think about it.. LOL..
Olga.
Re: Table question :: Alternate Automatic Table Positions
Thanks Olga. As usual, you read between the lines and addressed my reservations.
>P.P.S.: Unfortunately, if you are trialing and training.. I can't help you, ;-(.. Training takes time. I don't like trialing if training is not ready yet. Maybe enter classes where the skill "under construction" is not required? <
When #8 came out, I thought it was a great idea and toyed with the idea of retraining Bailey. I realized in the "heat of a run" it is not practical for ME to have diffrent cues for each dog. : (
At one point I used paired cues with Kody & Bailey..Table down,table sit. What I got was a down or a sit in front of the table. they were responding to the last thing they heard.
I am going to get out the clicker and work closer to the table until it is solid.
Cheers,
Jean
Re: Table question
I posted a video of Jaldi learning the automatic sit on the table. She is starting to get the idea.
ValÂ