Handling for Weave Entry

agiledogs's picture
Submitted by agiledogs on Tue, 2007-02-06 09:45.

Hi, All:

Attached is an Excellent JWW course we attempted last night. Our major problem with this course was getting an efficient entry into the weaves. How would you guys suggest handling this kind of opening?

Libby was perfectly happy to enter the weaves on a fairly nice line if I lead out beyond 2 and drew the path into the weaves for her. However, I discovered thru the observation of the instructor that Dusty was absolutely not a-goin' to adjust his stride between 1 and 2 in order to make the turn into the weaves. We did finally get him to take off long and come into my side after many tries, but letting him discover that he can adjust his stride is something we will have to put some time into once we can go out and train again.

My best run with Dusty had me leading out a little further than 2 and a little before the weave entrance (LO on the course diagram) and use the claw to get Dusty into the weaves and do an akward RX at the weave entry. Dusty stayed in the weaves, but my instructor observed that he lost a little of his drive while I was doing the cross. During my long drive (70 miles) home, it dawned on me that I should have tried the same set-up and done a FX at the weave EXIT. Hopefully, we'll have a similar problem set up later this week and I can see if it works.

Rose

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addictedtolabs's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by addictedtolabs on Tue, 2007-02-06 14:03.

Rose

The LO is not showing on the course map so I am not sure where your position is. I would have been past the poles, and  closer to the last jump but out of the landing zone, feet and body facing the poles,using the claw to guide him over the jumps. I am finding with Bailey that if I did that but was closer to the poles he will turn too tight and knock the 2nt bar. . May be one of those training issues.

Jean

agiledogs's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by agiledogs on Tue, 2007-02-06 14:47.

Jean:

My lead out was to about where the number 3 is on the course.

It is most definitely a training issue.  When I tried standing where you suggested, Libby, who is a lot less driven and more experienced than Dusty, was somewhat wide, but not excessively so considering her lack of exposure to such an opening.  Dusty, on the other hand, just barreled on past me and took the triple.  He has to figure out that not every obstacle is to be taken at a full out, extended run.  I'm really looking forward to working on the virtual lessons and honing his skills, but it will probably be at least three weeks before we can get outside and do so--we now have about 8 inches of snow on the ground, and under the snow there is ice.

Rose

addictedtolabs's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by addictedtolabs on Tue, 2007-02-06 17:20.

I would not be able to lead out by 3.( Yet)  Have you thought about no lead out. That is what I would do with Bailey to keep him in handler focus. I am not fast enough to FC before the poles but if you can it might make him shorten his stride.

I mistakenly thought the sequence was similar to lesson 9 (#4,#5, &#7) so tried some things after our practice session.. Even with the tunnel to tempt him, Bailey turned too sharply and knocked the bar before the weaves. So I take back my first suggestions, LOL.

I feel for you. It would drive me nuts to not be able to set up a jump or two and at least practice a little.

Cheers,

Jean

agiledogs's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by agiledogs on Tue, 2007-02-06 21:55.

Hi, Jean:

I tried leading out and doing a FX before the weaves, but Dusty ignored the cross and went barreling by me several times.  If this particular sequence is set up again this week, maybe I can try experimenting with a shorter leadout and see if that influences Dusty's stride. 

Rose

Olga Chaiko's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by Olga Chaiko on Tue, 2007-02-06 22:58.
Rose,

Instead of figuring out how to shorten Dusty's stride, etc., let's try to set him up so he has a chance to succeed without sacrificing speed and desire...

Set up just weave poles and the #1 and #2 jump, like you have it on that course. There should be nothing else in the training area. Sit the dog on the landing side of #2 jump, lead out to your desired position and call the dog to the weaves. Repeat this step adjusting your position until you have the dog entering the weaves in the most speedy and happy manner. When successful, sit the dog in front of the #2 jump, lead out to the SAME position as you figured out was the best in the first step, and call the dog to the weaves. When successful, sit the dog on the landing side of #1 jump, assume your lead out position and call the dog over #2 jump to the weaves. When successful, sit the dog in front of the #1 jump and perform the sequence #1 through #3. If the dog fails to turn to the poles or fails to enter at any stage of the session, go back to the very first step and retrace each step again. Let me know how it goes.

On the same note, weave entries should be 100% dog's responsibility. For the simple reason that it's much easier for the dog to learn to enter the weaves regardless of the circumstances, then to rely on you to regulate their speed, path, angle. The whole idea of "handling the weave pole entries" should have a different meaning: i.e.: what can I as a handler do to make it easier, faster and more fun for my dog to find the poles, enter them, weave and exit?

Olga.
agiledogs's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by agiledogs on Wed, 2007-02-07 07:34.

Thank you, Olga.  I blush to admit that I did not think to backchain like you are suggesting.  I printed out your reply and will keep it with my course map just in case we don't have this set up tonight or tomorrow.   That way, once it is nice outside I can set up the three obstacles and work on it with Dusty.  Also, the next time we encounter a similar problem, I'll remember that backchaining could be a very good way to help Dusty (or Libby) figure out what is needed.  I recall that in one of the lessons, you had someone use the same technique with their dog.  Wish I would have remembered that Monday night : )

I also want to try and run the sequence with the weaves on my left and see if I can get the front cross in.  Since I was able to do it last Sunday in a trial setting, I should be able to do it in training.  However, I'd still like to be able to have the option to run with the weaves on my right, so I will be sure to try backchaining as you suggest. 

I'm trying to keep up with the lessons by viewing them, taking notes and applying bits and pieces as I see an opportunity in class or at trial or run-thrus.  Once the ground conditions allow, I'll set up the exercises you have already presented.

Rose

agilemutt13's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by agilemutt13 on Wed, 2007-02-07 20:18.

this might be dumb...but couldn't u just barely lead out and as soon as the dog is committed to jump 2 turn your shoulder or say right weave (or both) ? That was the first way that came to my mind, I guess cuz it'd probably work with Wrinkles...I'm just thinking standing in front of jump 2 will cause them to knock the bar and leading out near jump 2 will cause them to run past the weave poles. just my thoughts... :)

~Helen and Helen's Dream Come True "Wrinkles" OAC, NJC, NCC, CGC

agiledogs's picture

Re: Handling for Weave Entry

Submitted by agiledogs on Thu, 2007-02-08 07:27.

That is an option. I think Dusty would still go flying by the weaves that way. It's another of those handler/obstacle focus situations that we will have to tackle when the snow melts. (Interestingly, in class last night, our instructor mentioned that if we always lead out, we had best practice occasionally starting with our dog just in case we encounter a course in trial that does not lend itself to lead out. Must admit I never would have given it any thought.  If I can start with a lead out, why shouldn't I be able to start without one. I guess that could lead to an unexpected surprise.)

Dust was able to hit the weaves very fast when I lead out to a spot between 2 and the weaves, faced him and used my right hand to call him.  As he approached, I just rotated, pulling him with my right hand until my left was closer to him.  (The only problem was I forgot to try a FX at the weave exit.  A RX lead to Dust going off course from 5 to 8, and a RX at the weave entry was kinda ugly since I had to backtrack in order to get around the weaves.)

However, once I can set this sequence up outside, I would like to try and work with Dusty as Olga suggested so that we will have another skill we can use.  I know it can be done since Libby had no problem with me leading out to the other side of the jump and then taking the weaves.  I would also like to try running with him and see how he would handle the weave entrance-maybe I could plan my path and get in a smoother RX on the weaves this way.

Rose