Sweetspot

agilityaddict's picture
Submitted by agilityaddict on Wed, 2006-12-13 09:27.

Hi Olga,

One question.  My dog never takes her eyes off me if she thinks there is a chance i am going to ask her to work.  My problem is that when we finish a sequence, between the time we finish the sequence to the time I call her to me to start again she circles around me - like when the instructor is talking and I am not giving my full attention to her.  Unless I give her something specific to do she will begin to circle.  Should I be calling her to front immediately after completing an exercise and either put her in a down or heel her back to the start or should this form of "stress relief" be allowed for a moment before we reconnect?  My instinct is I should get rid of this behaviour and teach an automatic 'come front' at the end of every exercise.

 Wendy

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Olga Chaiko's picture

Re: Sweetspot

Submitted by Olga Chaiko on Tue, 2006-12-05 14:45.
Hi Wendy,

You are on the right track: the aimless circling behavior is very undesirable and should not be encouraged. I won't call it "stress relief" though, unless in your dog's case she is for some reason stressed after finishing an exercise.. I doubt that, ;-).. 

It is in fact a very common Border Collie "ism", an obsessive-compulsive habit.. I call it "bc shuttle". Other breeds can pick up this habit too, but it's most common in Border Collies.

Now, regardless of the breed of your dog, here are my guidelines for the after the run routine:

AFTER YOU FINISH YOUR RUN/EXERCISE IN A TRIAL/PRACTICE/CLASS:

1. Pay 100% of your attention to your dog.

2. If you need to be "civilized" and listen or talk to your instructor, friends, show officials or even should the US President came calling... still pay the majority of your attention to your dog. In fact, I would not instruct, nor answer questions until the student dog is taken care of. Remember, guys, we can't do Agility without our dogs, so they should always come first!

3. It's as easy as "walk and chew gum" concept, i.e. multitasking:

-  reward your dog with a game of tug while talking to the instructor
-  or a game of fetch..
-  or a cookie.. or 2.. or five..
-  or a pet on the head times million..
-  or a combination of all the above plus whatever you and your dog like to do together in public, ;-)..

I would not ask an excited dog that just ran a great run for me to assume a boring static pose or "heel" him to the start line.. that would be a let down.

I would put the dog on a stay or in a crate after we are done celebrating, if there is a significant wait before the next run.

If I choose to keep the dog with me, sorry, but he is a part of the company and will be included in the goings on. My dogs don't "hope" for my attention, they have it.. 24/7.. and I got theirs..

That's what "sweetspot" is all about  --  latent attention.

I will elaborate on this topic in a video address.. great question, Wendy! very important.

Olga.
agilityaddict's picture

Re: Sweetspot

Submitted by agilityaddict on Tue, 2006-12-05 14:56.

We always play tug between turns as long as things go fairly well and the effort is there. But what happens if the exercise goes to h*ll in a hand basket, lol?  What happens if she misses a contact or ignores a timely cue (as judged by someone watching)?  Do I still go ahead and reward like crazy or would a come front and heel back to the start be more appropriate?

 Wendy

Olga Chaiko's picture

Re: Sweetspot

Submitted by Olga Chaiko on Tue, 2006-12-05 23:08.
Hi Wendy,

Now this is a completely different topic, but it's still a sweetspot, ;-)..

Well, think about it. Let's say, my dog loves to tug.. He does a great contact and I offer him a game of tug. So he likes the deal: contact - tug. He doesn't do a good contact - no tug. If only dogs could understand this logic.. they all would have perfect contacts, ;-)..

Dogs live in the moment. Who are you or someone else watching to say to the dog that "the exercise went to h*ll in a hand basket"?

So the dog had a grand time, got a bit carried away.. jumped the contact and went off course while mom was giving her oh so timely cue.. oops, ;-).. Bottom line, the dog felt good. Now here comes mom, whose middle name is "party pooper" and starts this nagging with the heel back to the start line, yick! All your dog will learn is that having a good time on the agility course does not include you, so why listen?

Since we cannot get into the dog's head and really see what he sees, all the above can be deemed as assumption. If your dog responds to the means you describe, I don't have any case to argue. But in all the years I've trained dogs, I haven't seen any that did..

I do not punish dogs for mistakes in agility, nor do I withhold reward. The only time I may get stern with the dog, is if he does something which can be potentially life threatening, such as get off the curb and go onto the street where he can get killed by a car. This has nothing to do with agility, there are no life threatening situations in agility..

The way I let the dog know the difference between a performance I like and a mistake is the use of a No Reward Marker (NRM). In fact, I have two verbal NRM's: "Oops!" = "this is not what I want, please try something else", and "Wrong!" = "you know how to do this, please apply your brain". As you can see from the descriptions, "Oops!" is used for the behaviors in the process of training, or if there is no way to tell whose blame it was that the mistake happened (regardless how many watching authorities happened to be watching). "Wrong!" is used very sparingly and only if you have a dog who can stomach that.

Ok, back to your scenario.. the dog jumps the contact and then goes off course, most probably because of your reaction to the naughty contact performance.. I say "Oops!" upon the badly performed contact and trail off.. As soon as the dog is done going off course I will call the dog to me with a cheer and reward his attention back to me with a tug or a toy throw, or a cookie. If there was a moment of disconnect between me and my dog, I need to find the fastest way to stop that and reconnect with my dog, so why would I withhold a game of tug?

However, what I would do if my dog was not successful in an exercise, whether it was an obstacle skill that failed or the teamwork, I would redouble my efforts as a handler to set my dog up for success, and if that doesn't work, lessen the difficulty of the exercise or work on parts, so my dog can get it right.

Now about calling to front. I use "Come Front!" cue a lot. IT IS NOT A PUNISHMENT. My dogs come to front with the same speed/zest as they go after a tennis ball.

Anyway, Wendy, try not to think in terms: do a contact - get rewarded; jump a contact - get heeled to the crate. Agility is such a joyful activity for the dogs, that it's hard to say, if the dog liked the exercise more than your reward of tug or whatever.. and if your reinforcer falls short of the dog's expectations, why should he give a hoot about your punishment? The dog will just do agility for himself and listen to you not.

If your training session is not going according to plan, best thing to do is play with your dog and take a break. A fresh look on things works wonders..

Olga. 
agilityaddict's picture

Re: Sweetspot

Submitted by agilityaddict on Wed, 2006-12-06 08:42.

Hi Olga,

Okay, I totally agree.  I do not currently heel my dog back to the start and punish her for mistakes - that is the problem.  I use, as you say, a NRM, however, also as you pointed out if I don't offer the tug reward then she does a couple of laps on the way back to the start.  I'm not sure how to communicate the difference between correct and incorrect if the outcome is the same for the dog either way - ie. a game of tug.  I did not intend on the come front as a punishment just a way to get back to the start without the circling behaviour.  Perhaps I should ask for the come front behaviour when we are not successful and then offer the tug as a reward for responding?

Wendy